Experience & Level Progression

tim-cain system-design xp leveling progression skills perks quest-design learning-from-failure

Abstract

Problem: How should RPGs handle experience gain, leveling, and skill/perk progression?

Approach: Tim Cain draws on decades of shipping RPGs (Fallout, Arcanum, Pillars of Eternity, The Outer Worlds) to evaluate different XP and progression models he's tried.

Findings: Quest-only XP is the cleanest solution because it decouples how you solve problems from whether you solved them. Skills should unlock for spending only after you've failed at them enough — creating a natural difficulty curve that slows progression as mastery increases.

Key insight: The ideal progression system combines quest-based XP, freely-spendable perk points on level-up, and a "learn from failure" gating mechanic on individual skills — giving players meaningful choices early and strategic point-banking later.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NHDATFgswY

1. Why Keep Levels At All?

Tim acknowledges the recurring idea of abandoning levels entirely, but rejects it. Most players either like or need an overall gauge of how they're progressing. XP bars and levels keep things simple — easy to point at and say "that's what's happening." The sense of filling up a bar and hearing the level-up is a core satisfaction loop.

2. How XP Is Gained

2.1. Methods Tim Has Tried

Over his career, Tim experimented with many XP sources:

  • Kill XP — classic but problematic
  • Skill-use XP — gain XP by using your skills
  • Quest completion XP — Tim's preferred approach
  • Damage-dealt XP (Arcanum) — XP proportional to damage dealt per hit, automatically making tougher monsters worth more and splitting XP among damage dealers

2.2. The Arcanum Experiment

Arcanum's damage-proportional system was clever but flawed. Companions stole XP from you. In multiplayer, other players drained your XP pool. Healing didn't generate XP, requiring bolted-on subsystems — at which point you're back to "give XP for doing things" with extra complexity.

2.3. Quest XP Is King

Tim's strongest conviction: XP should come only from completing quests. His reasoning ties directly to his philosophy of non-linear, multi-solution quest design. If someone asks you to retrieve an item from a warehouse, you might:

  • Sneak in through a back window by picking the lock
  • Kill the guards and take a key off the body
  • Bribe a guard to let you in
  • Blow open a door with explosives
  • Pickpocket a key from a wandering guard

All that matters is you got the object and brought it back. Quest XP completely divorces how the player solves a problem from the reward — the game never imposes its idea of what "should" give XP. Tim pushed for this in Pillars of Eternity (Josh Sawyer went with it) and in The Outer Worlds.

3. How XP Is Spent: Skills vs Perks

3.1. The Distinction

Tim splits progression rewards into two categories:

  • Perks — coarse-grained, low range (1–5 purchases). Binary unlocks or big jumps. Example: "carry 50 more pounds."
  • Skills — fine-grained, high range (1–100). Map to percentage bonuses or hit chances. Example: "your chance to hit with this weapon."

Both represent things the player can get better at, but they serve different design purposes.

3.2. Learning From Failure

Tim's most distinctive idea: skills should only become available for point investment after you've failed at them enough. Each skill has its own individual progression bar that fills up through failed attempts — not successes.

The natural curve this creates:

  • Early game (low skill): You fail often → progression bars fill quickly → lots of skill options at level-up → tough choices about where to spend limited points
  • Late game (high skill): You fail rarely → bars fill slowly → fewer skills available at level-up → you might bank points for later

Tim connects this directly to his personal philosophy: he learned more from Arcanum's failures than from Fallout's successes. Failing teaches you why things don't work; succeeding without understanding why gives you nothing to build on.

3.3. Spend Points Anytime

Tim advocates for letting players spend both perk and skill points at any time — even mid-combat. Pausing to invest a point in lockpicking right before a locked door, or boosting critical hit chance in the heat of battle, represents a moment of realization. It's "a little gamey" but Tim doesn't care — that's what's fun about video games.

This also enables strategic point-banking: hold your points until you encounter a specific challenge, then invest on the spot.

4. Tim's Ideal System Today

If building an RPG today, Tim would combine:

  1. XP bars and player levels — for clear progression feedback
  2. Quest-only XP — no kill XP, no skill-use XP
  3. Perk points on level-up — spendable whenever the player wants
  4. Skill points gated by failure — individual progression bars that fill only when you fail at that skill, then spend points when ready

He considers this the most interesting progression system he can imagine — one that satisfies his core design pillars of player agency, non-linearity, and meaningful choice.

5. References